Italian version here
After the great interest for the European 7th dan sensei’s interviews, this is the time to interview Andrè Schiebroek Sensei
Enjoy the reading.
When and where were you born?
In Kruiningen, province of Zeeland in the South of The Netherlands. I was born on December 14, 1958 (the same day that Nakayama Hakudo sensei died, not saying that I am a reincarnation
How did you get into martial arts, and what ranks have you achieved?
I started budo practice at the age of 21 after a hockey career, so about 44 years ago. Due to some injuries my doctor advised me to search for some other activities so I started judo and jiu jitsu training. During my jiu jitsu training (that lasted over 25 years and ended in a yondan level) I discovered jodo and iaido.
To be more precise, jodo in 1989 and iaido a few months later. Since 2014 I hold the 7th Dan in jodo (Turin) and since 2015 the 7th Dan in iaido (Tokyo), both kyoshi.
Over 26 years I also practice kyudo in which I hold a 3rd Dan. Through the years I realised that budo is the thing that fits me like a glove, never to end.
What was the Iaido scene like when you first started out?
It all started in Helmond, a small town next to Eindhoven in a dojo called Togarashi. But soon after that I switched to Ren Bu Kan in Eindhoven where I still teach.
What does Iaido mean to you?
To me iaido, jodo and kyudo are a way of life. During my business career I had a lot of benefit from my budo practice in a way that peace of mind many times can be very useful when you have to make important decisions.
Who’s your sensei, and how did you meet them?
In Japan Ishido sensei once gave me a long lecture about the sensei-kohai relationship. As I started iaido -Muso Shinden Ryu- and jodo -Shindo Muso Ryu- in the Netherlands under Louis Vitalis, due to this explanation Louis is my teacher. But as he does not practice iaido any more for many years now I feel that my teacher is Ishido Shizufumi sensei. Although I realize that in the old Japanese tradition this is not correct. Anyway, it has already worked for years in this way and I hear no complaints.
Starting in 2021 I also joined Jushin Ryu again taught by Ishido sensei. I want to stress that my relationship with Louis Vitalis is very good and we regularly consult on budo matters.
How’s your relationship with your sensei evolved over the years?
I’ll stick to my relationship with Ishido sensei here, given the former explanation. After starting iaido and jodo I soon started to visit seminars in Europe where sensei appeared. Villingen, Paris, Gotenburg, Brighton, Sittard and Amsterdam to name a few. I always found support in sensei’s attitude towards me. Especially in deeper technical details. More than once he took me apart to teach me deeper details about kata. As I see sensei as a fighter, his techniques always are the top of efficiency as well as the top of effectiveness. This very well resembles my view on budo rather than performing techniques in a way that mostly looks good.
When was your first time in Japan, and do you still go back to train? Any memorable experiences?
I visited Japan for the first time in 1989 and went to Kawasaki to visit Ishido sensei in his dojo. I was not even practicing iaido by that time. I remember that sensei asked me how many jodo kata I already knew and as I had come to Seitei number seven then, he taught me number eight, Tachi Otoshi then. Also his mother, then teaching jodo, taught me that evening. After training she took my hakama and started folding it. I paid good attention to how she did this and I still fold my hakama this way up till now.
Next February I will travel to Japan again but I lost count of how many times I went there. I always felt very welcome in Japan and Shinbukan dojo.
A memorable story for me is this one: Once I was at the Butokuden in Kyoto watching Ide Katsuhiko sensei (he passed away in 2005) performing an iaido demonstration. I was very impressed by his iaido as he could really visualize his opponent to me as a spectator. A year later I visited Pam Parkers dojo in New York where I met one of Ide’s Japanese students. I told him about how impressed I had been by Ide sensei’s performance and he invited me to visit his dojo in Hiroshima for training there with Ide sensei. We exchanged mail addresses for arranging details on this visit and had a very nice training evening.
A year later I went to Japan again, this time accompanied by my friend Robbert Zeegers. After intensive mail contact with Ide’s student we travelled to Hiroshima and ended in front of Ide sensei’s dojo. As we went in, he welcomed us friendly but doubt crept into me as he was in a typical Japanese way reluctant, which made me unsure if he was expecting us and we would be welcome at all. I told him I was a student of Ishido sensei and immediately he took place behind his desk and picked up his phone to contact Ishido sensei.
After this call he changed completely! A more than friendly man who started with taking us for a day tour to Miyajima including food and beverage. We realised that Ide sensei was not going through all this effort for us, but it more than emphasised the stature of Ishido sensei. The next day we were invited to practice iaido in his dojo above his office. After some practice the building started shaking and trembling and we witnessed a 6.3 magnitude earthquake which caused all his certificates to fall on the ground and ended with us cleaning up the glass from the dojo floor.
How have kendo, iaido, and jodo influenced your budo journey?
Kendo or in my case jodo, helps to understand maai in iaido, to better understand mutual positions and distance of the opponent related to your actions, as well as timing of actions related to your opponent. The way of moving in the dojo and the way to keep balance both physically and mentally have helped me in other budo but also in my business career.
How do Japanese teaching styles differ from the way you teach in the West?
Many times when I visited Ishido sensei with one or more of my students, I noticed that if he wants to tell something to them, he teaches it to me. A totally different way of my direct person-to-person teachings in our dojo. I think this way of Japanese teaching relates to the above mentioned sensei – kohai relationship.
When did you first start teaching, and do you enjoy working with specific groups of students, like kids, competitors or adults?
I was nidan in iaido when my senpai -a sandan at that moment- took me apart and told me that he thought that I should take his position in front of the group and teach, instead of him. He told me he was of the opinion that I surpassed him. I promised him that if ever I would have this same feeling, I would voluntarily step back in the same way he did. I told this story many times to my students as an example of how humble and honestly one can be.
Sometimes parents inform us if it is possible for their 5 year old kid to join our jodo or iaido class. And I always ask them to come back when his/her age is around 14, which I consider to be the minimum to start with jodo or iaido. Whether students want to compete in tournaments, prepare for grading or just simply train does not matter to me. I teach them all I know.
Do you think Iaido has changed over the years?
This topic is a little worrisome for me. I notice in both jodo as well as iaido a slight tendency to emphasize the outer looks of the techniques. Maybe I am of the ‘old school’ where jutsu rubs shoulders with fighting. The ‘Do’ in iaido or jodo may, in my personal opinion, not culminate in very nice looking forms that slowly float away from its original efficiency and effectiveness.
A nice example in jodo is the way Hikiotoshi is taught nowadays. A very vertical position of the jo at the moment of impact on the sword looks nice and if performed well also sounds good. But the risk of missing the sword -and thus losing the fight- increases exponentially. So I’ll stick to my old video recordings of Ishido sensei that I studied comprehensively, where techniques work in the first place and after that look nicely.
What’s a typical Iaido class like for you?
Our lessons take 1 ½ hours. For years I have said that we practice a very old art and so I do not change the rough order of my lessons. Starting with some basic cutting to warm up followed by some exercise forms that include the basic movements of iaido. After that we practice ZNKR iaido for half an hour ending with half an hour of koryu explanation and training.
Do you think non-Japanese practitioners can truly understand the philosophy behind Iaido?
Most new students who start with jodo or iaido training tell me that they are basically more or less interested in Japan and its culture and or philosophy. Maybe not from scratch, but after some years of more or less intensive training, when we speak about the deeper ways, I sense that they understand this foreign and to us strange way of thinking. Although this is a little different from knowing all the do’s and don’ts in Japanese interaction.
What’s your outlook on the future of Iaido in Europe?
I have good faith in ongoing development of young talents and see that a next generation is forming and will soon be knocking on the doors of ‘sensei-ship’ The first generation (Jock Hopson, Vic Cook, Len Bean etc.) is already starting to retire and the second generation has taken over already. On the other hand I think it is about time that we would have some 8th dan teachers ourselves to complete the pyramid.
What advice would you give to beginners?
I would suggest reading and gathering knowledge about the art, go to (international) seminars and enjoy each other’s company, make new friends and persevere in your practice. But first of all; enjoy!
Is there any particular lesson or teaching you like to pass on to your students?
For years already I send personal email that end with a quote from the Chinese warlord Lao Tsu: Mastering others is strength, mastering yourself is real power.
Do you have a funny Iaido story to share?
A situation occurred many years ago when Ishido sensei was visiting us for a summer seminar. After the seminar I organised a day of sightseeing where we visited a local brewery and also I rented a few Solex mopeds to tour around in my home neighbourhood. We rode to my house were, as it was summer, the ditches were full of nettles. I was riding at the start of the queue and sensei happened to be almost at the end. As he somehow lost control of his bicycle handlebars he steered right into a ditch and disappeared in the nettles. Yoshimura sensei, riding right behind him almost choked with laughter but of course had to restrain himself. After parking the Solex’es I ran inside to get sensei some cream to suppress the burning. Luckily for sensei the only one to witness this was Yoshimura sensei, but he described the incident to me in a very colourfully way. Every time after that for many years when I met Yoshimura sensei, we laughed cheerfully about this situation, both making sure that sensei could not hear us.
